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Post by grif on Apr 16, 2021 18:38:06 GMT -5
This thread is for questions any of you might have about how certain saber parts are machined or related things like how an odd part might be held, steps involved in making, thinking a project out before starting. While I'm not a professional machinist i can show how i do some things. I'm sure others would as well. There are some knowledgeable people here. So don't be afraid to ask. We all start somewhere.
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Post by Guylo Ren on Apr 17, 2021 7:59:19 GMT -5
This is an absolute godsend of an idea- THANK YOU Grif,I will probably be asking questions at a volume that approaches spam thresholds.😅 For the past year I have been taking the first steps into machining my own first custom hilt (all manual).I've come a long way,but certain mis-steps & lack of experience have slowed me down plenty.
I will be here a lot in the coming days.
Weeks.
Months?!?😅👍🏻
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Post by Guylo Ren on Apr 17, 2021 8:52:57 GMT -5
Case in point: During milling yesterday,after a fairly successful first session of detailing thus:    Then,when going in for what should have been a relatively simple flat cut with a larger end mill,this happened:  Argh! So my question to any helpful machinists is; I believe my holding setup was simply too slapdash,in that I just clamped the piece straight in the miller's vice,atop a couple of parallels.Would small V-blocks be more likely to prevent this in future? I've done this before with the main body of the hilt,using a fairly large V-block,& it was pretty solid,just didn't have smaller ones available on this occasion as the toolmakers had already left (I do all my machining after hours in work,on the lathe & mill there). |
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Post by grif on Apr 17, 2021 9:33:23 GMT -5
Case in point: During milling yesterday,after a fairly successful first session of detailing thus: Then,when going in for what should have been a relatively simple flat cut with a larger end mill,this happened: Argh! So my question to any helpful machinists is; I believe my holding setup was simply too slapdash,in that I just clamped the piece straight in the miller's vice,atop a couple of parallels.Would small V-blocks be more likely to prevent this in future? I've done this before with the main body of the hilt,using a fairly large V-block,& it was pretty solid,just didn't have smaller ones available on this occasion as the toolmakers had already left (I do all my machining after hours in work,on the lathe & mill there). When i'm mounting in a vice like that with a short part i try to stay in center of vice. The jaws need equal pressure on each side to prevent getting cocked a little bit and not holding well. When you did the longer saber before i imagine it went thru both ends of vice and held better due to the equal pressure in vice. Also if you could turn part 45 degrees and mount flats in vice and do cutting on different axis you would have more holding power. When you absolutely have to mount in the side of vice like you did put another part in the other end that's of equal size to balance vice jaw. Hope that helps. Nice machining by the way. |
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Post by Guylo Ren on Apr 20, 2021 17:41:47 GMT -5
Cheers Grif,much appreciated! Here is attempt number 2 at the above part which I completed today- taking on board your sound advice,& also having pinned the toolmakers at work down for a bit of further guidance.I figured it was worth documenting here for the sake of the thread's theme to demonstrate a better approach to the same problem,for anybody facing similar issues. Holding round parts wrongly in a milling vice seems to be something of a mental block for me; I have learnt/realised/been told more than once already that if there are flat sections or ends on the workpiece,for gods' sakes clamp it by these! Like so:  The piece then sits in a far more stable manner (central in vice too,thank you Grif- a piece of total common sense that had eluded me previously,d'oh) & makes the milling operations much more of a breeze:    This was the stage I was about to start when the mishap occurred during my first try at the part,& it was much more logical to attempt the big flat chunky cuts first; planning the order of your work process is key.If you have ops to do that are more fiddly,or will leave the piece less stable or prone to collapse as wall thicknesses change,best to leave them til last if you can,I have now learnt. So next up,I reset the piece upright in the vice,& now had the benefit of the flat faces to clamp far more securely- a further useful side effect in this case being that the central deep slot I needed to be parallel to the outer wall would automatically be just that:    Last was the somewhat nerve-wracking milling of the narrow slots,which had always needed to be done last really.Using a 3mm end mill for a fairly deep cut into a part is a job best done slowly & carefully- being this close to the end,I really didn't want to ruin the piece (again!) or break the tool in it. Again,having the piece clamped by its flat faces,& allowing the mill to cut laterally this time,made the job much more stable & confidence-inspiring:  With the slots complete on each side of the part- it was done!   This seemed an initially tricky piece to make,one of the parts of my saber I was actually looking forward to making the least- but,with the sound advice I've been given & implemented,this second attempt felt much more achievable & has nailed the piece pretty much exactly as I wanted it.In about half the time,too! Hopefully this process might benefit someone else taking their early steps into machining also. Thanks again for setting up the thread Grif,& for the great tips!😁👍🏻 |
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Post by grif on Apr 20, 2021 18:02:44 GMT -5
Cheers Grif,much appreciated! Here is attempt number 2 at the above part which I completed today- taking on board your sound advice,& also having pinned the toolmakers at work down for a bit of further guidance.I figured it was worth documenting here for the sake of the thread's theme to demonstrate a better approach to the same problem,for anybody facing similar issues. Holding round parts wrongly in a milling vice seems to be something of a mental block for me; I have learnt/realised/been told more than once already that if there are flat sections or ends on the workpiece,for gods' sakes clamp it by these! Like so: The piece then sits in a far more stable manner (central in vice too,thank you Grif- a piece of total common sense that had eluded me previously,d'oh) & makes the milling operations much more of a breeze: This was the stage I was about to start when the mishap occurred during my first try at the part,& it was much more logical to attempt the big flat chunky cuts first; planning the order of your work process is key.If you have ops to do that are more fiddly,or will leave the piece less stable or prone to collapse as wall thicknesses change,best to leave them til last if you can,I have now learnt. So next up,I reset the piece upright in the vice,& now had the benefit of the flat faces to clamp far more securely- a further useful side effect in this case being that the central deep slot I needed to be parallel to the outer wall would automatically be just that: Last was the somewhat nerve-wracking milling of the narrow slots,which had always needed to be done last really.Using a 3mm end mill for a fairly deep cut into a part is a job best done slowly & carefully- being this close to the end,I really didn't want to ruin the piece (again!) or break the tool in it. Again,having the piece clamped by its flat faces,& allowing the mill to cut laterally this time,made the job much more stable & confidence-inspiring: With the slots complete on each side of the part- it was done! This seemed an initially tricky piece to make,one of the parts of my saber I was actually looking forward to making the least- but,with the sound advice I've been given & implemented,this second attempt felt much more achievable & has nailed the piece pretty much exactly as I wanted it.In about half the time,too! Hopefully this process might benefit someone else taking their early steps into machining also. Thanks again for setting up the thread Grif,& for the great tips!😁👍🏻 Awesome. Glad to help. Very cool piece you made. Great job. |
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Post by tbenen on Apr 26, 2021 22:32:16 GMT -5
www.onlinemetals.com/en/buy/aluminum/1-25-od-x-0-125-wall-x-1-id-aluminum-round-tube-6061-t6-extruded/pid/4357This is the stock I use for my sabers. The ID is listed as 1in, and to the best of my ability (cheap digital calipers) it seems that way if not ever so slightly smaller. This means it doesn't fit 1in blades without a lot of blade sanding, which isn't ideal. Accurate reamers are expensive and I don't think I'd even have the bed length to mount one in my tailstock with the hilt in the chuck. What's the best way to widen the ID of long stock for a slip fit on the cheap?
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Post by Guylo Ren on Apr 27, 2021 2:21:14 GMT -5
I'm not really in a position of great experience to advise you as such,but the way I got round this same problem was to turn out the ID of the tube with a boring bar,just to the depth of blade socket that I needed.Can be a painstaking process though,& I've managed to scrap a few pieces of stock by opening it out a fraction too much...
You can't put material back on!🤦🏼♂️
If you need the entire length of your tubing opening out though,that's a much bigger job I think.
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Post by ARKM on Apr 27, 2021 3:57:00 GMT -5
If you overbore enough, you can add back on by making a sleeve and gluing it in with metal epoxy. I had to do that with a blade holder blade socket before as well as an unthreaded pommel tang. Good times.
As for blade holder blade sockets, I use a boring bar. However my blade holders are separate pieces and not part of the main body. As such, I think the longest blade holder I ever bored out was around 4 or 5 inches and I may have flipped it 180 to do the entire thing. Not sure. For my main bodies I usually use 1.5" O.D. / 1.25" I.D. Though using the 1" I.D. stuff allows for more creative designs.
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Post by Obi-Shane on Apr 27, 2021 7:39:40 GMT -5
www.onlinemetals.com/en/buy/aluminum/1-25-od-x-0-125-wall-x-1-id-aluminum-round-tube-6061-t6-extruded/pid/4357This is the stock I use for my sabers. The ID is listed as 1in, and to the best of my ability (cheap digital calipers) it seems that way if not ever so slightly smaller. This means it doesn't fit 1in blades without a lot of blade sanding, which isn't ideal. Accurate reamers are expensive and I don't think I'd even have the bed length to mount one in my tailstock with the hilt in the chuck. What's the best way to widen the ID of long stock for a slip fit on the cheap? That alu should be fairly close to the correct size. Could be slightly off tho, hard to say. But really quick.. Common digital calipers aren't able to accurately measure internal bores because the surface of the calipers is flat and not able to follow the contours of the inside of the pipe. The edges catch on the round before the flat surface pics up "most open" part of the "mouth" you wanna touch, make sense? I mean, it's not much at does make a difference. So a 1" ID pipe will measure maybe something like .996 or something, it depends on the width of the flat on the point of your calipers. You need either special round jawed calipers for taking these measurements like these (there's a couple of variants)... www.ebay.com/itm/324480052351?hash=item4b8c84ac7f:g:qqcAAOSwkNNfNvBrwww.ebay.com/itm/350586007688?hash=item51a08df088:g:Z2YAAOSwgJVbdDc-Or you could use a set of telescoping gages to accurately pic up the ID of a part, and then measure that with your existing calipers. This is what I do. www.ebay.com/itm/350558907676?hash=item519ef06d1c:g:8fMAAOSwspddTI8kHere's a good vid by Abomb about em. Best way to open the bore up on a large pipe? Ahhh, quick answer is I use a boring bar like ARKM. But also, I don't think I've ever bored out the end of a long piece of pipe so that's kinda tricky. You might cheat it if you have little stickout and do skim passes, but if it's a lot then a steady rest is what most people use. I don't have much experience using reamers. |
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Post by tbenen on Apr 27, 2021 16:37:59 GMT -5
I've been hesitant on using a boring bar since I have so much stickout and no steady rest, but I'll give it a shot with some really light passes. I've got an internal threading tool which should do the job since I don't think I have a boring bar, but the surface finish doesn't need to be perfect. I only wanted to bore two inches, so it should be long enough. I'll report back if it works! Thanks for the help
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Post by Nerf Herder on Apr 30, 2021 10:03:01 GMT -5
I've been hesitant on using a boring bar since I have so much stickout and no steady rest, but I'll give it a shot with some really light passes. I've got an internal threading tool which should do the job since I don't think I have a boring bar, but the surface finish doesn't need to be perfect. I only wanted to bore two inches, so it should be long enough. I'll report back if it works! Thanks for the help You definitely need a steady rest in your arsenal. I live by mine. You should have no issues using a threading tool to bore. I've done it and I had the same finish as me HSS boring cutter. Just be generous with the WD40.
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